I am not entirely sure I understand what you’re saying, so please don’t get offended if I get it wrong (simply correct me).

It sounds like you’re saying biomedical and other interventions are valuable because they can make a neurologically atypical individual, such as someone with autism, behave in a neurologically typical manner. If that is what you’re saying, then I have a few objections. First, scientific evidence does not actually support that claim for many of the interventions parents try. Second, many of those interventions are (potentially or actually) harmful to the child. Thus, parents who are too overly desperate for a cure (i.e., something that will make their autistic child normal) are inflicting harm on their child for results they’re not going to get.

There are many sides to this issue. I have three children with autism, one is high-functioning, one is middle-functioning, and one is low-functioning (I don’t like those terms, but they have a certain degree of utility and I haven’t thought of something better). The one who is high-functioning got that way pretty much on his own–and he’s the one the doctors wanted to institutionalize. By “pretty much on his own,” I do not mean we did not provide him with therapy. We did. A lot of it. However, we also provided our other son (the low-functioning one) with the same therapies, by mostly the same providers, for the same amount of time, with the same tools. One got “better,” and the other didn’t. Was it the therapy or was it the child? Was it something we are completely unaware of?

There is no way to answer those questions in a scientifically valid manner.

And that’s the point…one parent claiming their biomedical intervention worked proves nothing; that child may have gotten “better” on his or her own. A scientific trial could, but they haven’t proved those interventions are successful across the population in the trials.

“In our world, the real world we all speak of, do we have any choice but to embrace the neurotypical mindset and way of relating and behaving?”

YES! We advocate for acceptance and accommodations. It takes time. And there are hardships along the way. But like any civil rights effort, there will be victories and those victories are worth pursuing. Things can change. Things should change. And, one way that they do change, is by not accepting things as they are.

High-functioning autistics like myself, who are not parents. We don’t have children, let alone low-functioning autistics who are a million miles from ourselves and our natures if we are NT parents.

Medium functioners, who don’t have the same capacity for perspective. This is a really debateable term, and offensive to some. But I am writing it to define the autistic who are locked in their own unique perspectives on the world, whereas there are others who are able to balance out their views with others, and enter into mutual dialogues. The aspies who don’t ‘get it’ about these issues, if you like?

Low-functioners. The Kanner-syndrome style people of all ages. Their main relationships are with parents. It is surely normal in our societies (I’m in Britain for example) that they usually need more support in different ways than they are getting. They usually have parents who identify as being NT.

Such parents fall into two camps. Those who may see neurodiversity in themselves, and know where the children interited it from, and those who have no idea what went wrong. Probably vaccines and metal as it CANNOT BE inherited, now can it? Also, how REVOLTING and PATHETIC our children are.

So the ND parents realize that support and understanding is essential, that they may come to know their children. The parents learn from the kids. But like the other camp of parents, they do anything to make their kids higher-functioners.

It is as simple as that. Both kinds of parents, want their kids to do better than them. To grow, prosper and live independent happy lives. But when they are low-functioners, biting, smearing and never leaving childhood no matter how old they get…

Thus, we have the many sides. We all need to accept that some parents, and people with ASD, will welcome biomedical interventions and cures. Some won’t. Some will do the opposite and embrace what is to be found in ND people.

In decades, we will have a good idea of just how effective these interventions are. But for now, this is what I think they really achieve.

They boost functionality, in order to aid the ASD person to do neurotypical behaviour better. Yes, to do it. Feelings, empathy, relating…all taught through therapies and facilitated inside them via biomedical treatments, diets etc.
The ASD people get better at the great act of neurotypicay.

But it is not a natural way for them to behave. Their natues are different. I could not hold down a job and relate well enough to be here now typing this, if it was not for doing NT really well. In our world, the real world we all speak of, do we have any choice but to embrace the neurotypical mindset and way of relating and behaving?

I am neurodiverse, as clearly were the author of this piece and her husband with his bipolarity. Indeed, this is one reason I am sure their family works so well. They really do have empathy. Neurodiverse empathy.

Opinions?

Okay, now you’ve made your distortions perfectly clear.

The article I wrote stated: “In some areas of the world, including Canada, families still face considerable pressure to imprison their children in institutions.” (third paragraph down, second-to-last sentence for those who want to check)

That is very different from: “IN CANADA PEOPLE ARE FORCED TO INSTITUTIONALIZE THEIR CHILDREN”

What is the purpose of making such a blatantly false accusation that is so easily disproven?

As to your question: “Where did you get that LIE from???”

It’s called “research.” It involves reading what people have actually written and listening to what they’re actually saying, and thus is not a lie.

As I’ve said before and will undoubtedly say again, I don’t go on ASAN, because I cannot follow chat rooms. It’s like going into a crowded shopping mall the day after Thanksgiving — just way too much. So, I don’t know what ASAN advocates. However, ASAN does not “own” the neurodiversity movement.

“So, it’s OK for a person with autism to be physically and verbally abusive…”

I don’t know who you’re saying said that. I certainly did not. Yet, I’m part of the ND crowd.

“When they say that those with Autistic Disorder “just need a few more supports””

Again, I’m not familiar with that argument. The people I’ve talked with talk about acceptance and accommodation. Perhaps you dismiss that as “just a few more supports.” I don’t know.

“Then they say “education is good”, but how can that be if you don’t want the person with autism to evolve and become more independant…”

Who says they don’t want the person with autism to evolve and become more independent? Who? The only people I have heard that from are people who dismiss neurodiversity, not the advocates of neurodiversity. Now, if by “evolve and become more indpendent” you mean normalize, then that might be the distinction. An autistic person can gain skills, self-control, knowledge, and independence without becoming “normal.”

“…is that not “curing” in a sense?? Is that not changing them??”

Evolving and becoming independent is not a cure, because they’re still autistic. It’s not changing them, it’s helping them change themselves. The difference is in who has the control. Does the autistic person direct his or her own future? Or does someone else dictate what that future should be?

“Neurodiversity, integration of people of all diagnosis’ into society is the end goal.”

Integration, yes, but also self-determination and respect for the humanity of the individual. Someone living in a group home is considered “integrated” in society by society’s standards. Have you ever been to a group home? Have you ever spent time in one? I’ve worked in one, prior to my children’s diagnoses. My mom worked in several over a much longer period of time. They’re awful, and they’re nothing like the integration, dignity, self-determination, and respect I want for my children.

“His peers view him as “different” but at the same time as one of them.”

I’m glad. That’s important. And I do know how that feels.

“My goal is to turn that mostly Non-verbal Autistic Disorder 8yr old into an independant adult…”

While I am wary of the implications of the phrase “turn that…into”, otherwise I would say that’s a worthwhile goal. My goal is to help my children grow up to be healthy, happy, contributing members of society, living interdependently with people who genuine love and care about them. The distinction between independence and interdependence would require another post.

“…turn that…into”, however, is problematic. “That” refers to objects, not people. The statement implies “that mostly Non-verbal Autistic Disorder 8yr old” is not a person, but it will be a person when you’re done. If that is not what you mean, I strongly encourage you to use a different phrase to describe what you mean. If that is what you mean, that would explain why you give/get so much antagonism from the ND crowd.

“…to ASAN and the Hub this is wrong.”

Again, can’t say one way or the other about ASAN, but not everyone on the Hub would say that independence is wrong. That’s a generalization. If you’re getting that response consistently, it makes me wonder what you’re willing to do to your son to ensure this outcome. If you’re getting this response from a only a few, then it’s unfair to generalize that response to the Hub, ASAN, and other neurodiversity advocates.

“To educate, to teach him to speak for himself, to wish for him the same lives they have (friends, family, communication, jobs) is being a horrible parent.”

I don’t know who is saying this, but educating your son and teaching him to speak isn’t wrong and it certainly doesn’t make you a horrible parent.

I do not know you and have not interacted much with you, so please don’t take what I’ve said as a judgment against you. I’ve seen your comments elsewhere, and they generally tend to be abrasive. The generalizations you’ve made are unfair and do not properly reflect the wide variety of people who associate themselves with neurodiversity. They certainly do not reflect my own views. To me, these generalizations imply one of two things: you’re either prejudiced against everything about the neurodiversity movment and spread misinformation; or, you’ve had some very unfortunate interactions with people that reflect poorly on the neurodiversity movement as a whole. I do not presume to know which is true, or if the truth is something different entirely.

I’m certainly open to an honest dialogue, but please leave the generalizations behind.

Where did you get that LIE from???

Don’t tell me Michelle Dawson who knows NOTHING about Autism and disabilities in Canada.

I wrote a 27pg report on autism, ND, services etc in Canada for the Fed’s last April. All 4 parties. The current version is 120pgs long. I will be NOTING, your lie and forwarding it on.

I find it interesting when the ND crowd writes this and says “it’s ok if I do it b/c I have autism”. Yet if an NT person did it, it would be wrong. So, it’s OK for a person with autism to be physically and verbally abusive – as our culture says it is – but if an NT person behaved in that manner to a person with disabilities it would be considered abuse.

Can’t have it both ways.

My disgust with the ND movement on the Hub and ASAN comes from their assault on parents. When they say that those with Autistic Disorder “just need a few more supports”, IMO it’s like Mary Antionette saying “Let them eat cake” or simply… take that, shut up and be quiet we are speaking for you whether you like it or not.

Then they say “education is good”, but how can that be if you don’t want the person with autism to evolve and become more independant… is that not “curing” in a sense?? Is that not changing them??

Neurodiversity, integration of people of all diagnosis’ into society is the end goal. My youngest son is integrated in a Gr 3 class and thriving. His peers view him as “different” but at the same time as one of them. They even volunteered – both classes – to take turns being his playground friends since as a bolter he has to stay in the fenced section atleast another year…. They enjoy him, and he enjoys them. That is Neurodiversity. My goal is to turn that mostly Non-verbal Autistic Disorder 8yr old into an independant adult – to ASAN and the Hub this is wrong. To educate, to teach him to speak for himself, to wish for him the same lives they have (friends, family, communication, jobs) is being a horrible parent. That’s not Neurodiversity, that’s protectionism at the expense of the most vulnerable and it’s wrong.

I never saw why “normal” should be a goal. Normal is boring. It may be easier, but it’s definitely boring. Most of the normal people I know aren’t “normal” in any real sense of the word, and they’re not boring either.

Have you ever read Madeleine L’Engle’s “A Wrinkle in Time.” The “normal” she describes is down-right scary! It’s also evil.

For me it’s just an issue of variety, life would be so terribly dull if everyone were the same. Same i ness is just too predictable.

Sorry about the approval thing. It took me a moment to figure out why you were in my e-mail but not on my blog!

I will definitely check out both sites and have you up on my links shortly! Thank you for calling my attention to your work.